© the eyeranian

name brings safety, class, personality... what else to name!!!???:)

The Shish-Kebab example simply shows how dishonest your friend was to sell an ordinary cut meat under the name the best cut of meat (fillet mignon). The customers most likely fell not for the name, but for the assumption they are ordering a better piece of meat.

If you had actually tried the different Starbucks drinks, you would have known that behind those catchy names are different kinds of drinks, that one may like or may not. So, instead of being so bitter about Starbucks customers who spend more than you like them to, go and see which of those drinks you like the best. Maybe you feel less bitter after a cup of Caramel Macchiato.

"Bitter" is the guy who just assumes "Shish-Kabob" is made of meat that is lower quality than "Fillet-Mignon". Those pesky stupid middle-easterners couldn't possibly know about what the "best cut of meat" is, could they?

Or maybe in his limited and closed mind this makes him continue feeling more superior in some demented way.

Jerry in Jersey,
I think you're reading just a wee bit too much into Coward's comment. Chill.....

Jerry in Jersey, let me know what cut of meat is used for Shish Kabab? Or better yet, go to your local grocery store and see how much more expensive is fillet mignon cut, compared to other cuts of meat. Shish Kabab is usually regarded inferior tp Kabab Barg, the latter is usually from sirloin ot tenderloin (where fillet mignon comes from). And hence, Kabab Barg is usually regarded more favorable than Shish Kabab. The "stupid middle-easterners" know their meat too, and never claim Shish Kabab to be Kabab Barg.
And, in fact it was the same "stupid middle-easterners" in Pedram's post that fell for the marketing scam, hence they practically understood the difference.

To save you the trouble of further research, notice that a certain grocer in DC currently sells fillet mignon at $24/lb, while sirloin steak (another good cut of meat) sells for $14/lb.

Of course, it also possible that Pedram's friend was not dishonest and in fact was using fillet mignon cut for Shish Kabab, and also selling in at the right price. In this case, the price would have been probably unjustified for the label of Shish Kabab, and it was the correct labeling of the product and not the foolishness of the customers.

Let me finish this round by paraphrasing a joke I read long ago in Keyhan Bacheha (Kids Kayhan, a magazine for kids in Iran).

A kid's science project concludes that Grosshoppers' ears are in thier legs. The experiment was:
1. Grab a grasshopper for experiment,
2. Tie it with a long thread,
3. Leave it at table at rest,
4. Shout "Jump" at it angrily and clap your hands,
5. Observe that the grasshopper jumps,
6. Now remvoe the legs,
7. Repeat steps 3-4,
8. Observe that the grasshopper does not jump.
9. Conclude that the ears are in the legs.

Ok Coward, you might be right. But what about words like "grande" that is being used in Starbucks? We -those who live in the US- know how every thing European here is considered 'classy'. Pedram is right to a certain point. He is also right about Iranians. See how they use the English and French words in their conversations to look more sophisticated and sound more smart... you can't deny it.
This is what Al-e Ahmad called "Westoxication" (Gharb-zadegi). I do not agree with all of Al-e Ahmad views about what he calls the 'west' but I should say he began a debate on a subject that we should really thing about.
Let me give you an example other than 'shish-kebab'. Why the young generation uses the word 'tatoo' instead of 'khaal-koobi?' ... because using 'tatoo' is 'chick' when 'khaal-koobi' is considered too provincial... too Iranian.

The Other, I do not want to deny the fact that some people feel better when using certain words, a sense of false intellectuality as I perceive it. However, there are other factors involved in why certain foreign words enter a language and get preferential treatment from the speakers of the host language. One such factor could easily be that the new term indicates subtle differences with the old terms existing in the language. So, for example, I believe the usage of 'tatoo' in Iran to refer to the same old khaal-koobi could easily indicate the differences in the techniques and the populace undergoing it. To me, 'khaal-koobi' by itself brings images of male/muscular/jaahel-type Iranians that do the khaal-koobi to show how tough they are. On the other hand, tatoo brings to my mind the exact opposite, a fashion statement to show how cool (or chic) the person is. I have not been in Iran for a long time now, and do not know if the usage of tatoo is in fact preferred to khaal-koobi in Iran.

Nonetheless, the usage of foreign words in spoken Persian observed outside of Iran, mostly amongst people living there, is a completely different issue. And, you should read too much into what kind of foreign words are inserted into spoken Persian outside of Iran.

Now, back to the Starbucks issue. I yet do not believe that their usage of catchy names had a major influence on their business success. Specifically I believe that Starbucks' using words like 'Tall', 'Grande' and 'Venti' only adds to the confusion of the customer, and not to the customer's liking. On the other hand, an invented phrase like Caramel Macchiatio is a good one where the customer can guess what is inside the drink. I would guess the drink includes caramel, some kind of chocolate and coffee.

My main objection to Pedram's post was the implict conslusion that people who frequent Starbucks suffer from some kind of cultural defficiency and they try to comensate by going to Starbucks and ordering drinks with the catchy names. Now, you tell me, who is the fake intellectual here?

"Coward" had me start to listen to his points until he came out with that "fake intellectual" line which sounded a lot more like a personal attack than healthy discussion (I say he and his as his agression gives his gender - and possibly age - away). Pedram puts his views out here on HIS weblog, if you don't agree, either offer your own version or even set up a site of your own to spread your own intellectual capabilities. He has never attacked your abilities or intelligence, so why do you do it to him? Coward, you just lost one sympathetic reader.

To me, Caramel Macchiato is not so much "continental" as quintessential American. When I was a student in Italy, there would be snickers if I ordered cappucino, or any coffee with milk after 11:00am. I can't imagine a setting where what is essentialy a hot milkshake would be appropriate, except maybe for children. Only in the homeland of Walt Disney would these coffee cocktails be considered sophisticated! Umberto Eco wrote a book about his trip to the USA called "Journey Through the Hyper-reality", all about the huge fiberglass Dinosaurs, and Giant statues of Paul Bunyan, Bob's Big Boy, The Madonna Inn. Its sometimes like living in a cartoon, isn't it? The roads are great, though.

This is mostly about marketing sugar and caffein. After cigerates and alcohol Starbucks stuff is among the easiest products to market. The product constitues the base and rest is, well they know how to make us walk in to thier stores. The people that line up in Starbucks used to site in Dennys and other dinners every mornings and have 50Cent coffee with unlimited refills!!!!

Would a shish kabob by any other name taste so...fine? What if the name was brochette roti? Finally the entrees on the menus of Thai restaurants make sense. Still, it isn't easy to choose between "Evil Jungle Prince" and "Sublime Delight of Heaven".

I'll have a grande caramel macchiato, a serving of Death by Chocolate, and pass the insulin.