© the eyeranian

There must be at least one blank area reserved for murderers such as George Bush on top. The only difference is that he is too powerful and it might take time until he or leaders like him fill that (those) blank spot/s.

It is interesting to know, that in the crimes committed by many of these criminals (in the pictures) and similar criminals, the US has been the greatest partner and at least as guilty.

If these people have committed crimes in their home and in the neighborhoods only, US leaders have committed their crimes all over the world and not just in one area.

Think of Kissinger, just as an example.

Everytime i think I have a good entry Pedram outshines me. Great entry, the pictures really make a difference and illustrates that in history, justice will always reign sooner or later.

Faramin -

Go suck a weasel.

If you knew half as much as you think you know, you'd still have to gain 50 points of i.q. to reach moron status.

notwithsyanding my wish to appear eloquent, the only thing i can say in response to Faramin is "what an asshole."

Faramin,
Why do you think GWB is a murderer?

Pity poor Faramin. He is suffering sour bitterness today. Imagine trying to live with such a world view!

Contrast this with the mad celebrations of the Iraqis, those who have been freed. This is indeed a day for joy and jubilation! Leave the sour ones to themselves!

Are you sure you wanted to display a picture of Haile Selassie (top right corner) and not Mengistu ? I've heard more about the oppression of Mengistu than of Haile Selassie.
just wondering,
akg

Despite my dislike of Bush administration, I think Faramin is way off base here. But that's just me.

jay,
Eloquent
Date: 14th century
1 : marked by forceful and fluent expression
2 : vividly or movingly expressive or revealing

Your response was eloquent, don't be shy. Your discriptive phrase, ("what an asshole.") was, er..., discriptive.
In describing Faramin, asshole gets my vote.

I don't know much about the other dictators, but I know that Iran's Shah (middle left) and Saddam (the goofy looking guy in the middle!!) got to power mainly due to American "Government's" help. I don't think anyone intelligent can argue otherwise. Now I am extremely happy that Saddam has been captured and I think the American army did a great job. But in Faramin's defense, I think he is right about US's government (not civilians) being almost equally guilty due to helping these dictators come to power!! I am sure US’s government could have guessed what would happen to the people of Iran and Iraq. But the services they got from the dictators at the time were too valuable to care about simple people!! That my American friends, is not right!

Shah was returned to power by the U.S., Pinochet came to rule Chile after a U.S. coup, Saddam would have certainly not remained in charge had it not been for U.S. support, Marcos was a long time ally and U.S. puppet, Noriega was on CIA payroll... The list goes on.

But those who claim to be defenders of free speech and open dialogue prefer to curse instead.

I don't agree with Bush being on the same list, but let us not forget two points;

1 - Nobody can deny the role our government has played in either keeping dictators in power or bringing them back to it.

2 - It takes total ignorance to call someone you disagree with in terms I see here.

Did Idi Amin (lower right) live to a grand old age via the hospitality of the Saudi's? I mean, sure he's dead, but he was, like, 80 and die of kidney failure didn't he?

Franky, the US only went after Noriega when he became an problem for the American government, not because he was a nasty dictator.

Didn't Idi Amin (lower right) live to a grand old age in peace and comfort via the hospitality of the Saudi's? I mean, sure he's dead, but he was, like, 80 and died of kidney failure didn't he? Who cares if you aren't running the country anymore as long as you get to keep all the money.

Franky, the US only went after Noriega when he became an problem for the American government, not because he was a nasty dictator.

I wondered why suddenly this site had so many idiots "commenting" on it. Then I noticed Padram's post was mentioned in Buzmachine.

Not to worry, I am used to be attacked by jumping-up-and-down monkey idiots.

Faramin, Foad, Kris,

The US is guilty of many sins. That is right. But that doesn't explain everything. First of all, as far as foreign support for Saddam is concerned European countries especially France, Germany and the former Soviet are far guiltier than the US. France and Soviet Union gave him advanced weaponry and signed every sort of contracts with him to the last minute. German companies gave him Chemical weapon technology. Taking advantage of weak or corrupt regimes is part of the international politics. Do not solely blame US because many other governments would do worse if they could. We are living in and unfair world. Face it.

Last but not least, let us put the blame where it really belongs. The people. The same people that create and cherish their dictators. If people change a little bit then their political systems will change a whole lot. In most cases people truly deserve their rulers. Iranians still deserve Mullahs because they have not changed enough. Americans too deserve W. or men as low as him before they wake up and realize the true value of their freedom. The same applies to many other nations and their good or bad political systems.

I blame Iraqis the most for keeping Saddam in power for such a long time and am against the US led war because democracy and human rights cannot be militarily enforced.

I agree with you Jafar about the fact that Farnce, Britain and UK were guilty in supporting Saddam for years. I am not sure though, if they are guiltier than the US. But the fact is that the US has had much broader influence and support for the tyrants such as Saddam in the world.

Although, it is a welcome news that Saddam is captured, but since it was by the Americans who fed him for years, I am not sure how to react to this. What makes me warried is that Saddam crimes and his partners in his crimes will never be completely revealed in an International war crimes court. After all, he is a captive to the Americans and American do not wish to display all aspects of what he did during his years in power. Why would they? Then, they would be putting themselves on trial for crimes against the humanity and although Bush is not very smart, he probably understands this or at least people around him will tell him.

Sorry I meant France, Germany, Britain and Russia.

I would suggest reading this:

Saddam key in early CIA plot
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030410-070214-6557r

Did you notice that in the news photos most of the people who were happy were either Kurds (They had the flag of Kurdistan in their hand), Shia (they were from Sadr-City or other Shia places), or people like communists (all those people with red flags). So what looked like a total agreement of a nation over the subject was in fact a a reaction that was extremely divided among a totally divided nation that does not support the occupation, for different reasons. The only exception here might be Kurds.

All these can not be seen by the Western media. They just see the cheers...

Where's Ceausescu, Pol Pot, Mussolini and Hitler.

Who's next? Castro, Qadhafi, Kim Jong Il or Mugabe

I'm sorry, man, but I cannot agree with your inclusion of the Shah in that crowd.

He may have made mistakes but he was not of the same ilk as Saddam Hussein!!! Would Saddam Hussein have refrained from firing on protestors at the end of his reign like the Shah did? No!

Come on Reza!
Shah was as cruel as Saddam. He was just less stupid.
As an Iranian who has lost one of his family members as a political dissident under Shah and two under Khomeyni I don't see any difference between these tyrants. I still remember my father hiding his books in a hole inside one of the walls in our house. I still remember my cousin at age 19 being taken from Tehran University dormitory to "Committee" prison, being tortured and released just after signing a confession letter. I still remember everybody being afraid to speak about anything political out of an omnipresent fear of SAVAK.
Please! ... Do not make an angel out of that monster just because you (and all of us) hate the new monsters who rule our country now. Remember him with his one party system and his mandatory sign up of all the citizens to his party. Remember his Saddam-like parlement with all the members selected by he himself. Remember his corupted family. He was a disgusting tyrant. I wish I could see him in the same condition I saw Saddam today. I wish the same about all the remained tyrants including Khamenei, Rafsanjani, and the ones who are hidden behind the mask of "democracy."

Sorry, Ted, only dictators that can be tied to the US are allowed here. Get the point? Get it?

Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Hitler: What's the tally, 100 million bodies? We could play connect the dots with them but let's face it, it's much more fun to compare GW Bush to Saddam and find that Saddam comes up wanting. And P.S. France, Germany, China, and Russia were far cozier with Saddam than the US ever was; at least if weapons contracts and nuclear power plants have any relevance.

S.A. Smith, Idi Amin and Salassi were tied to U.S. too?

Let's get over this fixation on "evil dictators". These tin-horn idiots aren't the devils people want them to be. They just represent what happens to people imbued with absolute power. Until people can be smarter, more virtuous, and more forgiving, there'll be plenty of dictators around to lead them around like sheep.

All you people howling for joy now that Saddam has been caught should remember the Shah. Did getting rid of him make Iran a better place? Is Ethiopia so great now that a few of its "dictators" are gone? It's the people who can make themselves better and build a better society. But if they are petty, greedy, and ignorant, then they will get the government they deserve.

And there are plenty of people far more evil than Saddam all around us. There was a couple in New Jersey who starved their foster children. Their nineteen year old foster son weighed 50 pounds. (go to www.iht.com/articles/115312.htm for the story). Disabled chldren in Australia were caged like animals (http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,8051860%255E421,00.html). There are sick, brutal people all around us, even in the "civilized" world. Catching Saddam is a non-event, especially now that he is a broken, powerless fossil.

"If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart."
-Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Sorry, Faramin, but if Bush is the unilateralist your side says he is, I don't think he qualifies on the criterion of "relied on foreign supporters" (or the other criteria, for that matter). Which "foreign supporters" keep Bush in power?

Mani Agha: You're right. Every American success is a nonevent. Only American failures count. Because the U.S. and Australia are eevviill, unlike China, Cuba, Indonesia, Iran, North Korea, Russia, and other utopias.

Naser, no I don't believe they were.

I suppose I should have said that the PREFERENCE is for dictators who can be tied to the US. Why the most prolific murderers (by far) of the 20th century, all of whom were opposed in one form or another by the US, were excluded from eyeranian's wall of dictator shame, I'm not sure. What's the criterion for inclusion, ignominy of decline?

s. a. smith, you are trying too hard to read something into what is just not there. obviously your first suggestion was shown to be false, so now you try a different angel.

your examples of "Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Hitler" are older than the most recent cases you see pictured and people like Stalin, Hitler or Mao did not "rely on foreign supporters" as the description reads.

I would go further to say neither Mao or Hitler were "separated from their people" either and to the contrary were popular leaders at their time.

now you want to read something else into all of this? go for it. some will never learn, I guess.

Faramin, you should look at the Yanks recent history with dictators. With the cold war over the US pretty much stopped supporting dictatorships. With the exception of dictatorships in the moslem world and the US opinion on that seems to have severely changed.

You would be far more convincing if you weren't still living in the 70s.

Dear visitor, when I'm wrong I'm wrong. I withdraw my criticism of the picture. Though I don't think I'm as wrong as Faramin is--which is, yes I know, no consolation.

Picture this, its a month before the election, and the televisions are filled with Saddam's trial for genocide and crimes against humanity. How on earth will howard dean critisize the war?

A.H,
That's is the exact show to exploit the incapable peoples' minds.

It is so simple:
End doesn't justify the mean.

my fellow American freinds, please read this by Micheal Moore: http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php

I hope it helps clear things a bit. I am sure most of you have brains that still function. hopefully...

The minute you mentioned "Michael Moore", they closed their minds already. You see, they don't believe in a mind working like a parachute and prefer to always keep it closed.

Moore is one of the last reasons left for me to still love this land.

Who invited all the neocons here btw? I leave the place for 2 days and see what happens? :)

Jerry,
I was thinking the same think. That is exactly right. They just hear what they want hear, isn't it somehow the definition of "idiot"?

Foad,
perfect link. Michael Moore says it all.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, if the US was really afraid of what Saddam would reveal in a trial, they'd've killed him.

FYI,Michael Moore is a black humourist. Not a scholar nor a genius but just an earthling who loves your money (books,movies) more than anything.
I'll reserve my credit for him when I see his earnings given to proper charities.
However,as long as he has the undivided attention of "Blame America" herds,M.Moore will continue to run all the way to his bank with a great,big smirk in his face wearing his favourite t-shirt "Suckers born everyday!".

You never know Guru,

He might still "die" from a "heart attack", depends on how cooperative he will be with the Americans.

Whether it is revealed or not, do you have any doubt that at least in part of what he did, the US was his partner? And the UK, and France and Germany and and Russia.

If not anything else, at least in the crimes he committed against Iranian soldiers during the 8-year war, he was fully backed by the Americans. Over 1 million Iranians and Iraqis were killed, thousands are still suffering from it.

IKW,

I don't care who Michael Moore is and whether he is doing this for money.

What he says in this article is true. That is what is important.

My Friend Faramin - With all due respect, I may agree with the points you make from time to time, however your use of name-calling and often harsh criticism of those who believe differently is a big turn of. Hope you can rise above that.

Foad,

Okay, I read Michael Moore's "message". Gee, how could I have been so blind? Obviously the only reason Iraq isn't already a free and democratic nation is because the U.S. provided some intelligence to Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war. Or maybe it's because the CIA talked to him back in 1959, I'm not too clear. But I'm sure it's the fault of those evil Bushes.

If Foad or any other Moore admirers should happen to be talking to him soon, maybe you could explain that Frankenstein is the name of the Doctor who created the monster. The monster himself is more properly referred to as "Frankenstein's monster".

As for correcting Moore's other lapses from reality, I think he's too far gone.

Dear Jerry,

I think I can accept the point you are making about the name calling. And I oppolgize if I reduced myself to that level. It was just a reaction to the initial comments (insults) made by those who could not response to my points, and only could attack me for what I thought.

Harsh critisism? I agree, I might be harsh. But why not? Isn't it a fact that the current leaders of the US are committing so many crimes only because they have the support of the uninformed and lazy-to-be-informed public? Isn't it because of their ignorance that their current leaders are doing whatever the hell they want in the world only because they have the means to do it?

I have no personal problem with anyone, just go to my blog and see how I am being attacked with "words of wisdom", but that does not matter to me. What matters is that right now, there are thousands of people suffering around the world, directly or indirectly by the hands of the Americans (just see, Pedram's recent post about US made and exported torturing devices just as an example)

When they kill so easily or endorce killings, being just a bit impolite (if I am), doesn't make me more of evil than they are. It is not fair to be diplomatic with those whose arrogance and ignorance is (and has been) bringing more and more devastation to the world.

Having said this, I thank you for your friendly advise.

ok, what is up with some people relating ANY criticism of US's policy to “oh sure, it is all US fault”? That is bulls#$@!
How on earth PJ/Maryland, did you go from Moore’s article to “Obviously the only reason Iraq isn't already a free and democratic nation is because the U.S. provided some intelligence to Saddam in the Iran-Iraq war. Or maybe it's because the CIA talked to him back in 1959, I'm not too clear. But I'm sure it's the fault of those evil Bushes.” I am sorry to be this frank, but that honestly is one of the stupidest conclusions I have ever heard in my life! Accept it, there are many wrong things done by the US government in the past, including supporting Saddam AND Bin Laden and Taliban. Why is it so hard to accept any fault on your government? I don’t get it! What kind of stupid nationalism is this? If you, as an American citizen don’t criticize your government and make sure they don’t do wrong domestically and internationally then who should? Who even has the power to make changes necessary in your government? I am pretty sure it is only the USA citizens who could vote and elect their administrations. So, please PJ/Maryland, wake up! Don’t be so blind. Please. There are simple facts regarding US’s mistakes in the past. I am sure anyone has enough brain power to comprehend them. So please, use that brain of yours!!

Foad,
Don't wait for them to use thir brains. They don't have an opinion, they just have an "standpoint" that they do not want to change. The way it works is described here very clearly:

"... Some kind of idea is at the beginning of every political movement. It is not necessary to put this idea in a thick book, nor that it take political form in a hundred long paragraphs. History proves that the greatest world movements have always developed when their leaders knew how to unify their followers under a short, clear theme. [...] Christ's goal was clear and simple: "Love your neighbor as yourself." He gathered his followed behind this straightforward statement. Because this teaching was simple, crisp, clear and understandable, enabling the broad masses to stand behind it, it in the end conquered the world.
One then builds a whole system of thought on such a brief, crisply formulated idea. The idea does not remain limited to this single statement, rather it is applied to every aspect of daily life and becomes the guide for all human activity — politics, culture, the economy, every area of human behavior. It becomes a worldview.
[...]
Then one can say that a person has a worldview—not because he knows a lot or has read a lot—but because he sees all of life from a certain standpoint, and measures everything by a certain standard.
[...]
Our propaganda follows a clear line. Adolf Hitler once told me that is is not necessary to give a programmatic speech to a public meeting. The public meeting requires the most primitive approach."

--Joseph Goebbels,

Erkenntnis und Propaganda" Signale der neuen Zeit. 25 ausgewählte Reden von Dr. (Munich: Zentralverlag der NSDAP., 1934), pp. 28-52."

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb54.htm

Yeah, don't wait for them to use their brains. Liken 'em to Nazis. Sophisticated approach.

Nobody stops you. Use your brain. Show us that it really works.

Instead of repeating the sentence "I am sick and tired of the people who ... " over and over say something meaningful about the subject. Give us an analysis of what is happening in the middle East. Show us that you know the history and culture of the area. Make us logically convinced that Israel is right about occupying those territories for more than 35 years and bring us reasons about the difference between Israel and Iraq when they occupy a land that does not belong to them.
Tell us what made you silent when Iranians were bombarded by Iraqi chemical weapons and let us know what is the difference between Tehran and Tel Aviv when the first one doesn't get any news coverage being hit by 180 Iraqi ballistic missiles but the second gets a full news coverage after 8 missiles.
Show us what make you -as a country- eligible for changing other countries' governments and makes us believe (through reasons) that you are right about all the things you are doing in this world.
Unfortunately we haven't seen anything from you except your powerful fist. I hope, I really hope one day you show us we am wrong.

Thank you The Other.

Notwithstanding the importance of informed reasoning and analysis , the main problem with most political "debates" is that the opposing parties are operating with such fundamentally different values and premises.

"Yeah, the U.S. assisted Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war; but that was justifiable since Iran was a bigger threat".

Imagine arguing with someone like this. Your ethical values stand in dramatic contrast with his, making any sort of collaborative analysis fruitless.

In my case it is not ethnic values but humanistic values. Who cares about "homeland"? Who cares about "god"? To me these are just ideas, ... abstract concepts. They are good for debates, for discussions but they do not worth even a drop of blood to fall down. I really don't understand people who are ready to kill others for ideas.
You can imagine how I feel about the ones who kill for money or oil.

Sorry Reza.. I read it wrong. I read it "ethnic" instead of "ethical".

Well Mr. Faramin your vitriolic hatred of the President of the United States as well as any thing American has finally prompted my reply. I
first want to comment on one of your themes that
the United States supported many dictators around
the world. Sometimes we have to support one dictator using the addage that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. A good example was our alliance with that criminal Joseph Stalin in World War II to defeat his enemy Adolf Hitler.

After WWII the United States was in a cold war with an advancing, atheistic communism that resulted in our supporting other dictators if for no other reason than they were supposedly anti-communist. Unfortunately, this included the Shah of Iran. This of course alienated many that had to live under their tyrrany. But are the people of Chile who had to live under Pinochet for a period of time worse off today than the poor people of Cuba? Visit Chile sometime and see their thriving, prosperous economy and people. Then contrast that with the hell that it is to live in Cuba.

Now for our supposed support of Sadham. I still remember the pictures from Tehran in 1979 of Americans blindfolded, dragged through the streets and held captive for OVER A YEAR by that son-of-a-bitch, your Ayotallah. Please excuse my spelling and the reference to a son of a dog which I understand is a supreme insult in your culture. It was intended.

So is it any question that some Americans looked ascance at that other dictator of the region, the butcher of Baghdad, when he invaded the land ruled by our enemy. Now that the Ayotallah is where he should be, burning in Hell, we can more
realistically deal with the bastard of Baghdad.

I want you to know that as a Christian, (of course you will regard this as the response of a stupid, right wing fanatic American), it is my hope and prayer that all people of the region, the Iraquis and Iranians will soon be living in freedom, safety and prosperity. Then maybe you can leave the land whose President you hate so much and as our beloved President Bush said about Sadham, "Good Riddance". You will be able to spout your anti-American, socialistic crap in a free Iran just like you can in that shining light of freedom to the world, The United States of America.

WJ,
You opened my eyes to the truth. You are right...
You need to get rid of these commies, these backward Middle Easterns, these other opinions.
"One Nation, One Fuhrer, One America!"

Oh One Nation, your response was so predictable since you are of the same ilk as Faramin. Did I say that Middle Easterners are backward??? Absolutely not!!! My wife lived in Mosul and Beirut and attended the American University of Beirut, a great institution but since it has the word "American" in it you probably don't agree.
With its great history and culture how could anyone regard middle easterners as backward??
Unfortunately your countries haven't contributed anything to civilization in 500 years. And yes,
a few of you are so close minded that your arogance is exceeded only by your stupidity.
And incidently, I had several family members who fought against der fuhrer in WWII, did you????

Sorry I addressed you wrong The Other, that last response was for you

for WJ;

nah, we wont go! we'll just stay and do what your ancestors did and what every immigrant group in the history of this country has...change it!

of course if you don't like what we'll change it to, you'll have the opportunity to go find your ancestoral homeland and leave. in that case "Good Riddance" indeed.