© the eyeranian

Yo Da Man! Hoo-ha!

I agree. I think the decision is one more sign the Iranian foreign policy apparatus may be finally maturing. It's about time too.

I don't know how you look 'cause I haven't seen you. I also regret that many Iranians are closted racist towards Arabs, more so because of the reasons you mentioned. I also agree with your arguments.

But I have a question. What can an "observer" do in such a meeting? To have a more detailed minute of the meeting? Well, they can have it through their diplomatic connections? To be more in touch with the decisions made in there? The decisions get published. And quite frankly it is not like something earth shattering happen there. To influenece the league or preserve their interests? They are only observers.

I still don't see what negative thing would come from Iran joining the league. I think it's partially the racism towards arabs but more so it's a desire to criticize anything that the Iran govt does no matter what it is.

Iranian racism is disgusting.The psudo-nationalist claim for Iranians being from a "real clean Ariyan" race, and their sympathy for Hitler is something between a joke and a nightmare.

Your post is great. I suggest everyone to read the essay "Forgiving Salm and Tur, A polemic on race " written by Laleh Khalili:
http://www.iranian.com/LalehKhalili/Sept98/Race/index.html

WhoMan - As Pedram rightly points out, its all about dialogue. The more you participate internationally and attend meetings, conferences and symposiums, the less isolated you are in your own little bubble. IRI makes some really stupid moves internationally, so when they occassionally make a right one, we should all acknowledge and promote it. Great post by the way!

This is so ture.

Whoman: One issue immediately comes to mind which may be helped by this Iranian move, and may have even in some way been involved in the decision to join the Arab League. The dispute with the U.A.E. over the three Iranian islands in the Persian Gulf. The Arab states have usually supported the U.A.E.'s claims on this with more or less intensity over the years. Iran says the issue should be resolved thru direct dialogue. U.A.E. says we want to take it to the International Court of Justice. If Arab states grant Iran observer status at the League, it means that they've consciously taken one important step towards broadening the channels of dialogue. In this way, the calls on Iran at the end of a typical AL conference to give back the islands won't work the same way it used to. Iran is there, and can be seen, and can be talked to. It's not just a usurper state out there, it's potentially one of the Arabs themselves. I think this is a very useful thing. I would even compare it to having/not-having an embassy in another country.

Another thing I would find significant (which I just thought of) is the implications for the Arabs of accepting Iran into their fold. Think of what kind of effect it could potentially have on the whole Pan-Arab idea. It looks to me like a very significant transformation, if it happens. Obviously, they know Iran isn't an Arab country. Does accepting Iran mean they see themselves bounded together by something more than their language?

Amazing observations. Particularly the part with EU. Thanks!

Hi, I'm confused reading this right after the debate about Hoder running for office. There, Pedram argued that the regime is so illegitimate that one should not legitimize the political process by participating in it. Here, Pedram has all sorts of advice about how "we" (i.e. Iran) should go about joining the Arab League to effect political change in the region and "expand our dialog with the world". Am I the only one that thinks this is strange?

Its really silly to talk about our plight in that region in terms of Arabs or Iranian, non the less we have to, so I say lets mix this pot up and kindly ask your sons or daughters to marry Arabs or Iraninan. In couple of generations we all will look back and laugh about how backward our discussions were. To coin a all inclusive phrase "What we have here is lack of communications", even amongst our highly educated Iranians of American persuasion.

Today's the day for boldness, tired heart.

In loving her*, there's no room to be distant.

Whatever logic holds, put that aside.

Now's the time for madness**, right this instant.

Rumi

her: Iran
madness: the Arab League?

Hayedeh, you probably are 'cause I don't see any conflict between the two.

Why am I not surprised, Visitor--oh, wait! You ALWAYS agree with everything Pedram says.

Sorry I snapped at you, Visitor, my spirits are always a little low this time of year. I'll try to be more clear.

As I was reading this post (compared to the Hoder post) it struck me that it felt like P was talking about two different countries: the country with the illegitimate regime in the Hoder post which must be shunned by its citizens, and the country in this post which must actively join all the organizations. There is a sense of optimism here that was lacking in the previous post and this is what jolted me. Refusing to participate in the political process (whether by running for office or trying to reform from within or just voting) is the ultimate surrender. That is saying in effect, this regime is so corrupt I give up, no change is possible from within. It is analogous to an embargo on the level of countries or a divorce on the level of personal relationships. After you do that, what else can you do but move on and never look back. Like could you have said during the Taliban era, boy I sure hope Afghanistan can join the Whatever League, that's just what it needs.

Now my personal opinion is that I agree with P on this issue and hope he reconsiders his stance on political participation. If he sees Iran as capable of making rational decisions to further its people's interests then he shouldn't give up on its own people effecting change via the political process.

Does this make more sense to you or am I still not clear?

Hayedeh,

If I may add my take on this, I think your point is valid that the two posts seem so conflicting. Perhaps they are and that exemplifies the true predicament that we Iranians are in, especially those of us who live outside of motherland. We on one hand hate, hate, HATE anything that has to do with the current regime. We fantasize about the day “they” will leave us the hell alone so we can start licking our wounds. As so well noted in Pedram’s post, Voice of Israel radio station is listened to because its what “they” say not to do. All kinds of boundaries are pushed to the extreme, views are radical and emotions are dramatic and perhaps blind-sided by the frustrations, grief of lost decades.

Yet - and that is the magic word - yet do we leave it? Do we stop trying to change the system? Do we stop trying to run for an office just because we hate the establishment? Can we possibly ignore Iran’s future in such a critical geographical area just because the current regime is mad? Have we lost hope that they will leave us be one day? When that day arrives, shouldn’t our position as an independent nation be at least somewhat secure in the area? Even though its foundations are being laid by such unworthy builders?

Its almost like the classic master/slave relationship. One that hardly personifies love but its all about need never the less. They are all we have got right now. If US-led coalition forces were to rape Iran like they have done Iraq, what would you want to happen? Would you not cling to this same hated government to protect your family and relatives who still live in Iran? Pedram talked about the nuclear armament a while back. Again, it’s the same argument.

Iran becoming part of the international community is not about promoting or legitimizing IRI necessarily, although sadly that is the mask that the world sees right now. Its about survival of a country and its people, beyond this “unholy” occupation which will end one day, either slowly through reform movements like Hoder’s or by some magical act of kindness from God who will take pity on the bare feet of street kids selling gum to az ma behtaran.

I'm glad you spoke about this... You should see the reaction the ladies at my local mosque have when they ask me "Are you married to an Arab or an Iranian?" and I reply "The old or the new husband?"

Please don't dismiss in a knee-jerk fashion the real concerns of Iranians about the Regime's efforts at lobotomizing Iran's Pre-Islamic identity as racist and bigoted.

You make some great points about the strategic benefits of greater involvement in regional and international organizations. However, this does not change the fact that the majority of Iranians (no, I never took a poll; I'm basing this on a modest sample group of friends, family and associates - farily well randomized) view the Islamic regime as a foreign yoke and antithetical to the maintenance of a distinct Iranian identity.

The source of this concern is not the fear of being ostracized as "Pakis" or "sand niggers" and consequently latching onto anything that would associate us with the more illustrious white, European club. The source is a real concern for the loss of our distinct cultural reality.

Iranian civilization has endured because it has always gleaned the best elements from other cultures and synthesized it with its indigenous roots. This is adaptation and only through adaptation can Iranian culture endure. However, having the clerics' "...strict adherence to certain Arabic traits and customs, plus their loyalty to Arabic language, Arab holy figures and a religion that is seen by many as foreign" shoved down the throats of Iranians is not cultural growth or adaptation.

This is what most Iranians despise. Not Arabs.

and they can despise that all they want, it's their right to. what does that have to do with joining an organization to build dialogue with our neighbors and participate in their decision making process? why are we so insecure about this "loss of our distinct cultural" b.s.? if our culture is strong enough and we have strong commitments towards our culture as individuals, families and communities, we will never lose it, regardless of what group we belong to. did iran's zorostarians or armenians or.. lose their distinct cultures despite their extensive interactions with other people and even living under their domination? no. we won't be weak enough to lose ours either. let us get rid of this insecurity about our very strong culture, please.

I think this is a very important discussion for Iranians to have. Many Iranians are ignorant of Iran's neighbors, and look down upon them. Iran's culture was the most interesting, in my opinion, when it's cultural centers were in Baghdad (in current Iraq) and Samarqand (in current Uzbekistan). The confluence of Arab, Mediterranean, Central Asian, and South Asian influences enriched all the peoples in this vast region. Iranian culture today is split between the idiotic ramblings of the Los Angeles dinosaurs and the zealotry of Qom. I am very sad to think that I can find more Pakistani restaurants in San Francisco than in Tehran, and to see so many Iranians moving to America and Europe. Maybe all those "euro-iranians" (you know, the ones who believe Iranians are really European Aryans) would do well to realize that one reason Europe advanced beyond its barbaric middle ages into the renaissance and modernity was that people of different nations came together culturally and were able, in between wars, to contribute to a common civilization. I hope more people exhibit the maturity and honest self-reflection of the eyeranian.

Totally agree with you!
I should add an interesting story to this. Right after the Arab's invasion and the collapse of Sasanians, there was totally an inverted reaction towards Arabs as I guess Iranians were so intimidated by Arabs (as they are by Europians right now). An Iranian commander from the first Hejri century has quoted: "I don't look at myself in the mirror because I am reluctant to see the face of an "ajam"!!!!!"
I think we should really work on certain parts of our culture.

Sabere M. Kashi

ten mills from shores of each country in the open seas called international water and the 3 islans of tomeh bozorg ,tomeh kochek ,aboomowsa are located near the center of strait of Hormuz and they make the strait of hormuz's mainstream Iranian water territory and any ship pass,s through must elevate Iranian flag but if Iran loss,s the Islands means lossing the territory. all the land outlying Persian Gulf majarity Parsians. remember Bahrain I rather be dead than to see the day that Iran lost controle of the strait of Hormuz.

ten mills from shores of each country in the open seas called international water and the 3 islans of tomeh bozorg ,tomeh kochek ,aboomowsa are located near the center of strait of Hormuz and they make the strait of hormuz's mainstream Iranian water territory and any ship pass,s through must elevate Iranian flag but if Iran loss,s the Islands means lossing the territory. all the land outlying Persian Gulf majarity Parsians. remember Bahrain I rather be dead than to see the day that Iran lost controle of the strait of Hormuz.

I am glad to see Iran joining the Arab league,and any other institution,that can extend our nations influence in reigonal and world matters..
I think that many people just , condem any political move Iran makes,because they wish to discredit the Goverment. I am not a Pro I.R but,do give credit where it is due.As i put my nations well being befor my political selfishness.
I think we should learn from euroupe and unite in the region.as we have simmilar national and economic intreasts,we have vast markets and borders,which we can use for further economic development and advancment. We all geo politicaly depend on regional stability,most of us have economics based on oi and gas exports,and to reach these goals we must unite.And firtunatly Modern Iran and Modern Arabia(not 3 thousand years ago,which doesnt exist today weather culturaly or in any other form)have many cultural simmilarities,and most important shared religion,which we can use as a basis to further streangthen ,the region and our strive twords development and advancment.
Dont forget that most of the problems that exist today,and bloody events where due to this gap between Iran and Arabia.e.g Iran/Iraq war.when Iraq is maby in everyway the closest nation to iran weather it be religously ,culturaly,art,pre islamic history and after islam.
Arabs opening there doors to Iranians have shown that the pan arab backward mentality is giving way to a closer ,healthier,greater future,where iran is seen as a sister nation. and Iran as the majour regional power has to be involved in all matters,even arab matters,that directly effect us in everyway.
And hopefully one day the whole world will unite,as one.
We must see this as a oppurtunity to influence the arab world and extend our political power and role.
And block out voices of facsist iranians or arabs or turks,who try and widen the gap between nations,and create unstabe situations,that only dammages the region,for there close minded backward ideals.(Hitlerites).
If we look and Iranian culture we will see,it is influenced with turkish/Arabic/greek/mongolian/Egyption cultures,mainy because we have been situated in the silk road,and world civillisations have passed through our are,thus us becomming culturaly rich and able to interact with east and west,as also Iran is a multi cultural scociety,I being a Azari,know this. But we must see that Human instinct is to change with enviroment,thus showing Competition creates Development,and advancment.If there is no Competition there can be no developement.As also we see multi cultural scocieties in u.k and europe and usa,have used this towards there advancment. Closed scocieties have no place in this world which is becomming smaller day by day,and closer and one family....
Closed economies cultures and politics is weak,poor,and will always fail as history has shown.
I am just sad to see tha when the west is looking for life in other planets,and sees the univers as earth and mars or earthlings and other galaxies beings,some old minded backward iranians,can even see few miles beyond the borders.............

But in this age of globlisation,and new worlds,our educated young generatyion are to advanced to be influenced by some pro pure Aryan claiming fascist people.
and NEWS FLASH..IRAN IS MADE OF MANY RACES,I AS A AZARI AM A EXAMPLE.!

I am glad to see Iran joining the Arab league,and any other institution,that can extend our nations influence in reigonal and world matters..
I think that many people just , condem any political move Iran makes,because they wish to discredit the Goverment. I am not a Pro I.R but,do give credit where it is due.As i put my nations well being befor my political selfishness.
I think we should learn from euroupe and unite in the region.as we have simmilar national and economic intreasts,we have vast markets and borders,which we can use for further economic development and advancment. We all geo politicaly depend on regional stability,most of us have economics based on oi and gas exports,and to reach these goals we must unite.And firtunatly Modern Iran and Modern Arabia(not 3 thousand years ago,which doesnt exist today weather culturaly or in any other form)have many cultural simmilarities,and most important shared religion,which we can use as a basis to further streangthen ,the region and our strive twords development and advancment.
Dont forget that most of the problems that exist today,and bloody events where due to this gap between Iran and Arabia.e.g Iran/Iraq war.when Iraq is maby in everyway the closest nation to iran weather it be religously ,culturaly,art,pre islamic history and after islam.
Arabs opening there doors to Iranians have shown that the pan arab backward mentality is giving way to a closer ,healthier,greater future,where iran is seen as a sister nation. and Iran as the majour regional power has to be involved in all matters,even arab matters,that directly effect us in everyway.
And hopefully one day the whole world will unite,as one.
We must see this as a oppurtunity to influence the arab world and extend our political power and role.
And block out voices of facsist iranians or arabs or turks,who try and widen the gap between nations,and create unstabe situations,that only dammages the region,for there close minded backward ideals.(Hitlerites).
If we look and Iranian culture we will see,it is influenced with turkish/Arabic/greek/mongolian/Egyption cultures,mainy because we have been situated in the silk road,and world civillisations have passed through our are,thus us becomming culturaly rich and able to interact with east and west,as also Iran is a multi cultural scociety,I being a Azari,know this. But we must see that Human instinct is to change with enviroment,thus showing Competition creates Development,and advancment.If there is no Competition there can be no developement.As also we see multi cultural scocieties in u.k and europe and usa,have used this towards there advancment. Closed scocieties have no place in this world which is becomming smaller day by day,and closer and one family....
Closed economies cultures and politics is weak,poor,and will always fail as history has shown.
I am just sad to see tha when the west is looking for life in other planets,and sees the univers as earth and mars or earthlings and other galaxies beings,some old minded backward iranians,can even see few miles beyond the borders.............

But in this age of globlisation,and new worlds,our educated young generatyion are to advanced to be influenced by some pro pure Aryan claiming fascist people.
and NEWS FLASH..IRAN IS MADE OF MANY RACES,I AS A AZARI AM A EXAMPLE.!

You do a good work, keep it going

If you would be unloved and forgotten, be reasonable.

Its really sad that so many Iranians don't see their true Aryan path and don't understand the Semitic divide that seperates us from Jews and Arabs, and unites us with other Caucasian peoples.

I am not against Arabs but I am persian! Do you see contradictory??? It is very natural that people like to be called what they are. Turks hate to be called Greek, German hate to be called French and I don't think that if someone like me don't like to be called arab there is a problem!
I am against the current government and I know a lot of other people that have the same feeling, but we are not against Phalestinies! we don't like israil! don't mix everything with each other. I think it is really good that first iranian people try to be close to each other and feel like brothers themselves.this is possible if they learn their history and believe that they can make a difference and that is not opposite with their foreign policy.

I am from India, there are about 2 lakh parsis. They
have contributed lot to India. They are most intelligent people. The father of India's nuclear programme is a persian. I am sad that people in iran have forgotten their roots.

Inertia is not limited to matter.

Ethics is not necessarily the handmaiden of theology.

IRANIANS ARE SANDNIGGERS AND DUNE COONS they are so stupid thinking that skin colour makes one an ARYAN-the only true aryans are all Indians from north to south. Dravida is a term made up to misinterpret Indian history to give europeans an excuse to exploit the country of its resources vis a vis the british raaj-heck it only lasted 150 years, what is that compared to the oldest civilization on Earth! Iranians with their Zarathustra (Skt. Jaruthustra) is a prophecy fulfilled in that Indians exiled them to the west. Then with Zarathustra they rebelled against our beliefs further and established their Zoroastrianism-a cognate of Vedism!. However these FALLEN ARYANS mixed with ARABS. It is amazing how Indian survived Islam as Iranians/Persians were converted at swrod point while their women were fucked by arabs giving rise to half breeds. Pakistan suffered a similar fate without the extensive racial mixing as it occurred over a shorter time scale. However the message is PERSIA/IRAN served as an exclusionary buffer for INDIANS (ARYANS) and kept us pure. Modern genetic studies show Indians are homogenous for certain core haplotypes indicating a common origin and purity despite our phenotype! However Iranians cluster heavily with Arabs and Jews!
I am sure the NAZIs wouldnt like that! DUMB IRANIAN SAND NIGGERS think that because due to some parts of North Iran were the solar insolation is lower and little UV effect of melanocyte activity occurs makes them somehow an ARYAN? LOL wake up camel fucker! Iranians are so fucked up and bent on kissing white ass they bleach their hair and their skin-and avoid the sun!!!! Hitler said Germany is the Fatherland and Indian is the Motherland. No bloody mention of IRANISTAN RAGHEAD CAMELTURD OOGAHHBBOOGAH LAND.
Here is a famous Farsi Foodu quote: AL HAKSH, AL SJHFE BALEH MAMOUN JOON MEIN TERI KHIR ET MADER QOS....ALLAH DJHFDFD ZCZXV ZFVADSFD . Fuck they sound like a camel get raped when speaking.
I love it how in the American, Canada, UK, Australia these people are called dune coons, sand niggers and shit.........eventhought they try so hard to 'convince' people they are white..LOL wake up mother fuckers..........you will never compare to India, and her people the TRUE ARYA. Heck our countries ancient name is ARYA VARTA! Documented in texts!!!! So bend over and I'll show you the real ARYAN WARRIOR!

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